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	<title>Comments on: Scientists&#8217; Responsibility to Share Materials</title>
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	<link>http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/</link>
	<description>biomedical research, just another job...</description>
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		<title>By: physioprof</title>
		<link>http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1686</link>
		<dc:creator>physioprof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 03:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1686</guid>
		<description>I tend to think of that kind of crap as just &quot;in the noise&quot;, and not worth getting too worked up about. Like when someone cuts me off on the road: momentary annoyance, but five minutes later I&#039;ve forgotten about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to think of that kind of crap as just &#8220;in the noise&#8221;, and not worth getting too worked up about. Like when someone cuts me off on the road: momentary annoyance, but five minutes later I&#8217;ve forgotten about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Biogeek</title>
		<link>http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1684</link>
		<dc:creator>Biogeek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 03:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1684</guid>
		<description>DM,

Journal blogs don&#039;t for the most part allow anonymous commenting. You think people would sign their names to such comments? Gossip blogs are just that, gossip.

Anyhow, I thought this was what professional meetings (GRC, Keystone, society, the like) were for, right? To exchange dirt on people in the field?

ps. if it comes to that, contacting the journal can be effective I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DM,</p>
<p>Journal blogs don&#8217;t for the most part allow anonymous commenting. You think people would sign their names to such comments? Gossip blogs are just that, gossip.</p>
<p>Anyhow, I thought this was what professional meetings (GRC, Keystone, society, the like) were for, right? To exchange dirt on people in the field?</p>
<p>ps. if it comes to that, contacting the journal can be effective I think.</p>
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		<title>By: drugmonkey</title>
		<link>http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1683</link>
		<dc:creator>drugmonkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 03:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1683</guid>
		<description>So whaddaya think? Assuming the articles involved were published in journals that had something like the statements listed above, was this an ethical violation? 

If so, how bad? Not worth contacting the journal over I assume? 

I&#039;ll put on my moral absolutist Janet/writedit/s.rivlin pose for a minnit. Suppose there were a journal blog or per-article discussion like PLOS One that coturnix is always on about or even a field gossip blog. And you posted the &quot;they sent me junk&quot; accusation with the lab involved made obvious. And suppose everyone else who tried to request reagents also chimed in with &quot;gee I got a bogus response too&quot;? How long would it take to eliminate that crap?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So whaddaya think? Assuming the articles involved were published in journals that had something like the statements listed above, was this an ethical violation? </p>
<p>If so, how bad? Not worth contacting the journal over I assume? </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll put on my moral absolutist Janet/writedit/s.rivlin pose for a minnit. Suppose there were a journal blog or per-article discussion like PLOS One that coturnix is always on about or even a field gossip blog. And you posted the &#8220;they sent me junk&#8221; accusation with the lab involved made obvious. And suppose everyone else who tried to request reagents also chimed in with &#8220;gee I got a bogus response too&#8221;? How long would it take to eliminate that crap?</p>
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		<title>By: physioprof</title>
		<link>http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1677</link>
		<dc:creator>physioprof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 02:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1677</guid>
		<description>&quot;And I’ve been sent a few &#039;oops-no DNA in that cDNA, funny that&#039; samples in my time, too.&quot;

I think we all have. I remember one situation as a post-doc where I requested a particular cDNA clone from someone, and she rapidly and politely sent me a tube of DNA. It was pBluescript with no insert. So I sent a polite e-mail informing her of this, and quickly received an apologetic e-mail that a &quot;technician&quot; must have made a mistake, and that a new aliquot was on its way. New aliquot was also pBluescript. &quot;So sorry. First-year grad student must have made a mistake.&quot; Next aliquot: still empty vector. I think we gave up and just PCRed it up. But she won, at least in her own perception, because she slowed me down by about six months from working with that cDNA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And I’ve been sent a few &#8216;oops-no DNA in that cDNA, funny that&#8217; samples in my time, too.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think we all have. I remember one situation as a post-doc where I requested a particular cDNA clone from someone, and she rapidly and politely sent me a tube of DNA. It was pBluescript with no insert. So I sent a polite e-mail informing her of this, and quickly received an apologetic e-mail that a &#8220;technician&#8221; must have made a mistake, and that a new aliquot was on its way. New aliquot was also pBluescript. &#8220;So sorry. First-year grad student must have made a mistake.&#8221; Next aliquot: still empty vector. I think we gave up and just PCRed it up. But she won, at least in her own perception, because she slowed me down by about six months from working with that cDNA.</p>
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		<title>By: draust</title>
		<link>http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1667</link>
		<dc:creator>draust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1667</guid>
		<description>Antibodies and engineered cell lines are a good test here. The unlikelihood of getting something off a lab goes approximately

cDNA &lt; antibodies &lt; cell line

- i.e. you &lt;i&gt;might&lt;/i&gt; get a cDNA, but after that it gets really tough.

Another problem is that whether you can get the stuff often depends on who you are. If you are a &quot;player&quot; you have a shot at getting your request taken seriously, provided they are not afraid of you as a direct rival. If you are a relative nobody you basically go to the back of the queue. And I&#039;ve been sent a few &quot;oops-no DNA in that cDNA, funny that&quot; samples in my time, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antibodies and engineered cell lines are a good test here. The unlikelihood of getting something off a lab goes approximately</p>
<p>cDNA &lt; antibodies &lt; cell line</p>
<p>- i.e. you <i>might</i> get a cDNA, but after that it gets really tough.</p>
<p>Another problem is that whether you can get the stuff often depends on who you are. If you are a &#8220;player&#8221; you have a shot at getting your request taken seriously, provided they are not afraid of you as a direct rival. If you are a relative nobody you basically go to the back of the queue. And I&#8217;ve been sent a few &#8220;oops-no DNA in that cDNA, funny that&#8221; samples in my time, too.</p>
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		<title>By: No Suprise Authorship Allowed! &#171; Medical Writing, Editing &#38; Grantsmanship</title>
		<link>http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1328</link>
		<dc:creator>No Suprise Authorship Allowed! &#171; Medical Writing, Editing &#38; Grantsmanship</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 02:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1328</guid>
		<description>[...] of thoughtful &amp; thought-provoking commentary, well worth the long scroll. Even Better Update: Drugmonkey has started a great (&amp; needed) discussion on responsible material sharing  (journal policies, replication of results in other labs, community of science, etc.). Go forth and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of thoughtful &amp; thought-provoking commentary, well worth the long scroll. Even Better Update: Drugmonkey has started a great (&amp; needed) discussion on responsible material sharing  (journal policies, replication of results in other labs, community of science, etc.). Go forth and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: laelaps</title>
		<link>http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1317</link>
		<dc:creator>laelaps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for the reply. I was just offering up a supplemental reason (not wishing to replace the idea of refinement that you elaborated).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reply. I was just offering up a supplemental reason (not wishing to replace the idea of refinement that you elaborated).</p>
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		<title>By: drugmonkey</title>
		<link>http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1315</link>
		<dc:creator>drugmonkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>a minefield, laelaps, a minefield. in terms of your specific example your characterization is a bit off in my view. this is an area of creating further refinement and understanding as opposed to &quot;correcting a mistake&quot;. but i digress.  

you are emphatically correct in identifying additional reasons we have Methods sections in the first place and indeed why scientists should share critical resources. 

but I&#039;ll go right out on the limb and suggest that, particularly in what we regard as some of the hottest science these days, labs are motivated to ignore reagent requests in some part because they don&#039;t want to be falsified. &quot;what? those cheaters!&quot; you say. well yes. I&#039;m in an area myself where experiments &quot;working&quot; or &quot;not working&quot; in the sense of antibodies being &quot;no good&quot;, conditions not right, etc are rare. however, I am familiar with other types of work in which the appearance of one lab &quot;getting it to work&quot; while another cannot is not ALWAYS evidence of fiction. so it can be complicated. provision of the material may end up being a long and lengthy process of helping someone replicate your work...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a minefield, laelaps, a minefield. in terms of your specific example your characterization is a bit off in my view. this is an area of creating further refinement and understanding as opposed to &#8220;correcting a mistake&#8221;. but i digress.  </p>
<p>you are emphatically correct in identifying additional reasons we have Methods sections in the first place and indeed why scientists should share critical resources. </p>
<p>but I&#8217;ll go right out on the limb and suggest that, particularly in what we regard as some of the hottest science these days, labs are motivated to ignore reagent requests in some part because they don&#8217;t want to be falsified. &#8220;what? those cheaters!&#8221; you say. well yes. I&#8217;m in an area myself where experiments &#8220;working&#8221; or &#8220;not working&#8221; in the sense of antibodies being &#8220;no good&#8221;, conditions not right, etc are rare. however, I am familiar with other types of work in which the appearance of one lab &#8220;getting it to work&#8221; while another cannot is not ALWAYS evidence of fiction. so it can be complicated. provision of the material may end up being a long and lengthy process of helping someone replicate your work&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: laelaps</title>
		<link>http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/scientists-responsibility-to-share-materials/#comment-1314</link>
		<dc:creator>laelaps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting piece, and it made me think about Stephen Jay Gould&#039;s book &quot;The Mismeasure of Man.&quot; Published how you achieved your results in details (procedure, materials, the whole deal) allows later scientists to go back and test the results, sometimes uncovering mistakes or biases that were not questioned at the time. Hence, even beyond helping science &quot;advance&quot; a more open policy can help to correct mistakes made many years before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting piece, and it made me think about Stephen Jay Gould&#8217;s book &#8220;The Mismeasure of Man.&#8221; Published how you achieved your results in details (procedure, materials, the whole deal) allows later scientists to go back and test the results, sometimes uncovering mistakes or biases that were not questioned at the time. Hence, even beyond helping science &#8220;advance&#8221; a more open policy can help to correct mistakes made many years before.</p>
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